my Wife Christine

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    As I said before I cant get my wife to do this forum. so here is what she wrote on this days log. She needs advise from someone other then me. The debate was me asking her if she thought she could start with the five yet. She said just the sound of my voice tensed her up. She wants me to be part of it but my presence stresses her out. maybe I can give her phone number to one of you. she does text her friends. or even just a couple phone calls. At this point the only person she will listen to is Doctor Pacik. but I think its because she is not reaching out to anyone else.

    Date _1-3-14_ Days post Procedure_____18days____
    7:17AM: Size_4__ Insertion time_40 sec__ Duration _15min_ Pain __1_Anxiety_1__
    7:32AM: Size__5_ Insertion time_30sec_ Duration __30min_ Pain _1__ Anxiety_1__
    8:05AM: Size_6__ Insertion time_30sec__ Duration __15min__ Pain __3_ Anxiety__3_
    Notes: used heat pad._
    4:55PM: Size_4__ Insertion time_10sec__ Duration __15min__ Pain _3__Anxiety_5__
    5:13PM: Size__5_ Insertion time_30sec__ Duration __30min__ Pain _1__ Anxiety_1__
    5:52PM: Size_6__ Insertion time_30sec_ Duration __15min__ Pain _3__ Anxiety_3__
    Notes: having debates during dilation makes my body tense up, and makes my anxiety and pain levels go up too. I ended up taking flexural 10mg.
    Used heat pad.. Stomach cramps are still present… Size 6 still feels tight.
    ???How long will it be before I can simply sit up without pain, or walk around while the smaller sizes of dilators are inside me, or handle size 6 without feeling so tight and/or get to size 7 successfully??????
    11PM: Size__4_ Insertion time_30sec_ Duration _overnight_ Pain __1_ Anxiety_1__


    Hi Tony. I’d love to text with your wife Christine. You guys are both doing excellent and I am so happy for you both!!!


    is there a way to PM her phone number?

    Janet Pacik

    I will forward Christine’s number to Heather34. Thank you Heather! You’re a gem!


    Thank you.


    She gave me permission to post her text to Heather.
    1) Can you tell me how long it will take before I can sit up, or walk with the smaller glass dilators?

    2) how long it will take before I won’t feel so tight with the size 6 and progress to size 7 and 8? (she feels like she has to go further then most women)

    3)can you tell me if yelling to another room in the house is making hurt during dilation? Or is it in my head?

    4) Can you tell me how I am supposed to relax with my husband touching me and other things if I can’t get him to help me dilate and help me during earlier stages? (in my defense I skipped helping her a couple times cuz she was very tense and pretty mean to me)

    5) why do I feel like there’s something pinching inside me and adjusting the dilator don’t help?

    6: can you tell me why I am feeling stabbing pains in my upper and lower back? Why my stomach hurts so bad, why my butt and legs clench up or why I feel like a bruise?

    7) can you tell me why my body is not dilating on it’s own and sometimes I have to force a dilator through like re piercing an ear over again.?

    8) can you tell me why I am still having spasms?

    These are her questions. Plz if you could state the number to the question you are addressing. She would really like if all her questions could be addressed. On a side note I couldn’t copy and past her text into this forum. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer her. She will not talk to her friends about this. And I feel like I am not equipped to help her. My Meir touch makes her clench up. IMO she is not ready for me to help. Thanks Tony


    I figured out how to copy and paste from my phone. It glitchy but it worked.

    Heathers response

    I felt so, so much of this in the beginning. I promise u this. I think u will feel much less tight the more that time passes. This will help the pain to decrease
    too. Its like a work-out at gym now. In the beginning, its always so fluctuating. One day muscle aches; the next day adrenaline from workout. I seriously felt so, so, so like this in the beginning. Its a whirlwind of both physical as well as emotional stuff. I promise u that it gets so much better. With the pushing (inserting) of the dilators, it helped me so much to use a ton of the surgi-lube and I always did it in stand-up position.
    I promise that u are not wasting your time and will overcome. I seriously felt so, so many emotions post-procedure. And, difft ones on difft days. For example, one day, I would feel confident and close to Tim and the next, I could feel distant and anxious. I can only say that it got so much bttr for me with more time:)


    I think christine needs to keep in mind that its only 18 days post proceedure and from the looks of her day 18 entry I think she is progressing very well. Dr. Pacik tells her each time that we send an update that she is doing very well. But she still feels like she is not doing well. I know this is probably ackward for you ladys to basically talk through me. But just know that I am reading this to her. I can’t explain why she won’t do this part herself because I don’t know. I cant get her to read books about it either. But I can read and explain things to her. Thanks Tony.


    Hi Tony and Christine. Please know that you are doing amazing and that dilating truly is a roller-coaster ride in the immediate time post-procedure. I experienced this as well and felt comfortable and pain-free on some days and then discomfort and frustration on others. Whenever I felt the latter, I always backed down a size and worked my way back up again when I was comfortable.

    I wanted to share a couple of further helpful posts from other members regarding their own experiences with this post-procedure as well. The thread is titled Early Post-Procedure:

    Excerpts include:

    Mabel 1226: I think the best way to think about this is this: the muscles in our vaginal walls have never really been stretched before. I keep telling myself I wouldn’t expect my body to be able to run a marathon if it had been in a wheelchair for 20 years. I, too, felt “guilty” for starting back at the purple before going up again. I am now 54 days post-procedure and still can’t get the blue glass in unless the pink glass has been in for 2 hours. One step at a time. You’ll get there in your own time and in your own way. Don’t get discouraged!

    Arose: Set backs are really frustrating, I know! But if you’re going two steps forwards one step back, you’re still moving in the right direction and will eventually get there. I remember Ellen saying that with dilation sometimes we have great days, sometimes bad days, and usually ok days. At one stage I had to get the baby blue one out (which we don’t even use at Dr P’s surgery) because I couldn’t even get the purple one in, but now I don’t even use the purple and go straight to the pink (and I’m working with the no7 too!). Perseverence and positivity is the key with this, and you are not alone in what you’re experiencing – keep going!

    Dr. Pacik: Post procedure dilation is a “roller coaster” ride during the first 1-2 weeks after treatment. The muscles are still tight and “talking back” as they are being stretched. Since most women feel they will be the one person for whom Botox does not work, any difficulty with dilation immediately verifies these feelings. Then the muscles loosen up as the Botox is taking effect and the week or two of dilation is starting to be noticeable with less pain and therefore less anxiety. Now it is just a question of continuing with the program of dilation, and most of my patients at this stage begin thinking of transitioning to intercourse.

    SP: Dr. Pacik is correct that dilating early on is a roller coaster ride. You are making progress and definitely celebrate every success! Even once you start trying intercourse you will have days where it goes smoothly and days where you wonder if the procedure worked. Stay positive and keep trying. I remember thinking will intercourse ever not have to be a “robotic” process. A little over 3 years now from my procedure I can tell you I rarely have to worry or get prepared to have intercourse. You are doing great and soon you will not even think about all the dilating and struggle. 🙂

    Further excerpts of posts from women treated in November include:

    I am in regular text contact with the other woman from my procedure date, and I wanted to pipe in and share that we both remark how surprising it is that a dilator is uncomfortable after insertion when three days prior insertion of the same dilator was painless. Inserting the #5 one day effortlessly, and then struggling for minutes at a time the very next day with the same size dilator really affirms for me that my body is mirroring the same struggles that my self image and psyche are experiencing. The resistance I feel internally (which has been prohibitively uncomfortable only with the #6, I am not yet able to fully insert the #6 glass which I was nearly able to day the day after the procedure) is a message that my life is radically different today than it was ten days ago, and I am grateful for the capacity to experience the discomfort. The discomfort is from a dilator INSIDE of my body. In my mind, the pain is worth the price of admission to a life where I can use thoughtlessly and easily elect to use tampons and FAR MORE IMPORTANTLY have a fully actualized sex life with a guy.

    It is such a rollercoaster of a ride (especially the first couple of weeks) and your emotions can be all over the place sometimes. Elated that you were able to even put a dilator in, frustrated that you can’t advance to the next size, apprehensive about your expectations for intercourse, etc. But I love the attitude of any pain you experience being the admission towards a more fulfilling and happy life!

    Tony and Christine, please know we are all here to support you both in your journey of overcoming vaginismus. Ladies or guys, do you have any further advice that may help Tony and Christine? What was your own experience post-procedure? Any and all feedback here would be very helpful.


    Thank you for taking the time to put that together. I am at work reading at the moment. I will be reading this to christine as soon as I get home.

    I can tell you that christine is having some emotional ups and downs. She is in such a hurry. She tells me “I just want to be normal” she is pushing herself hard. I have been encouraging her to slow down a little. She wants so bad to race through this process that she holds the diolators in to long, and it hurts for a few hours after. She gets cramps in her stomach and spasms that make her buckle a little and moan in pain. She takes pain meds to counter.

    I have been encouraging her to take only five minute changes. Right now she is doing the 4 for 15min then 5 for 30 mins then 6 for 15mins. We have made a schedule for her to help slow her down from taking big jumps in times. Like she will get motivated and try the 6 for a half an hour. And thenthen suffer that day and hafta skip a session. So I got on excel and made a plan for her that will help her progress steadly but not get in a big hurry. Next week she will be doing 4 for 10mins then 5 for 35mins then 6 for 15 mins. Then the week after that. 4 for 5mins 5 for 40mins 6 for 15. By my calculations she would be doing. The 7 and 8 by day 111 post procedure. This is assuming that she is able to keep up with this progression. But most importantly slows her down so she won’t over do it.

    She always dilates at around 6 am and then again at 6pm then the 4 overnight, every other night. She woke up yesterday at 6am and the 4 was unconfortable. She was hurting. She removed it and waited a bit to do her morning dilation. But then at 9pm asks me if I think she should try sleeping with the 5 soon. I said no. Not till you get to the 7. She said why? I think it could be sooner then that. I said Cuz dr. P said that the 4 is all that is nessessary. But also said that most women usually dilate up to the six. this illustratEd how big of a hurry she is in. I do think that since her goal is the number 8 that she will probably need to sleep with the 5 at some point.

    I would also love to hear from others as heather said in her post. Thanks in advance for any comment you wish to share.

    Dr. Pacik

    There is a lot going on for Christine, much more than the average patient struggling with vaginismus. At the age of 37 she has a long history of pelvic floor dysfunction including two separate episodes of secondary vaginismus (11 year history), a misdiagnosis and treatment for vulvodynia and vestibulodynia (which tested negative during treatment), a long history of failed treatments including Kegel exercises, physical therapy, dilators, lubes, topical anesthetics, muscle relaxants, anti-depressant and anti-anxiety meds. Also sexual molestation at a young age, irritable bowel syndrome, and numerous episodes of abdominal and pelvic floor cramping unrelated to dilation attempts. In treating her it was my hope that if we could re-balance some part of the problem perhaps associated problems would get better. I knew her treatment would be very involved. In actual fact she is doing well with the dilation program and as so many others have remarked this is the time to be patient to allow the treatment program to work.

    On a separate note you as the loving husband have become her voice. You are the one who contacted my office, filled out the forms for her and have taken an active part in her care. You have gone beyond the call. The downside is that there is no reason for Chris to take control of her own life as regards this treatment program. Even working out a long term dilation program is counterproductive. A former patient who is a nurse sent me the following private email:

    I think it’s great that the partner is writing but it truly isn’t healthy for her to be expecting him to take that on for her. I did this at one point and it caused a great deal of damage. He began to feel like a counselor or a brother rather than a lover. It took years to overcome that and it still comes up in arguments years later. So I think she needs to be encouraged to take control of her situation more and allow the partner to not have to intervene like this. I know how damaging it can become.

    I would ask that you delete all the dilation logs and keep your comments short enough so we don’t lose our readers. Otherwise this is far too much information. This can be done by doing a copy of your post, deleting the logs and re-posting.

    I plan to do a Skype or phone call with the two of you to discuss some of these issues more in the privacy of our call.


    Hi Tony, I am so sorry that Christine is struggling. I can totally relate to everything she is feeling, putting pressure on herself to “hurry” up and progress more quickly. Like Christine I would become frustrated with myself if I wasn’t progressing as quickly as I wanted to. I too had days when sometimes it was easy and other times it was like starting all over again. But through the help of the women on the Forum I learned that we each progress and heal in our own time and it is so important to be kind and patient with ourselves. Easier said than done when you just want so badly to be “normal”. Please tell Christine she is doing an awesome job with being consistent with her dilating. Like Heather said, it is like physical exercise, we are getting our muscles used to being stretched…we can have good days and then turn around and have bad days. The main thing is to try not to get discouraged and give up and to not put herself down. Celebrate every success no matter how small it is. Even if it is a difficult day and it seems like the dilator won’t go in and then after being gently persistent it does…she needs to be proud of yourself that she did it! What I found too is that it takes a while for our bodies to get used to dilating and having the dilators inside of us. Like your wife, I thought that if I dilated longer than Dr. Pacik said and/or slept in the #5 instead of #4 that it would make things happen faster for me and really I found out that it didn’t, that it even ended up as a setback for me which caused even more frustration and tears. Dr. Pacik and Ellen truly do know the best dilation program for us. Have you or Christine talked about her dilating schedule with them? I am 53 years old and suffered with Vaginismus all of my teenage/adult life and had my procedure in October 2012. It took a while for me to feel comfortable with my husband being with me when I dilated. I have had a lot of trust issues due to past experiences but I’m happy to say that I’m able to make love to my husband pain-free now and it will happen for you and Christine too! Tony, I think it is so wonderful how supportive you have been for Christine, especially posting on the Forum for her. The Forum was and continues to be such a blessing to me, not only for the support, and understanding but for the wonderful advice I have received…especially if I was having a down day. Please know that I’m here for both of you and I would be more than happy share my e-mail and/or texting phone number with you. Just let Janet know. After reading this I found that I was jumping all over the place so I hope it is not too confusing. I just want Christine to know that she is doing great and that she needs to be patient and gentle with herself. It will happen…I promise.


    Sorry for the delay in my response my phone don’t do a good job alerting me of email. I hope christine will take the advise and create her own user name. I hate to say it but I do want her to take the lead on this. I want her to study and analyze this. I can’t get her motivated to read about her condition. I do feel like her counselor. It is affecting me. But she does have a strong desire to be normal again. So I feel like if she won’t do it then I have to. I pick up where she drops off. I do need her to reach out fir help on her own. I can’t be everything. There is to much confict. Counselor, husband, friend, lover, provider, caretaker. I can’t counsel her she don’t trust me. I can’t touch he cuz she is scared I will accidentally hurt her. I can’t be her lover cuz she freezes up. I can be her husband and her friend. But you are right. I have taken on to many roles. I have red books out loud to her. Assisted in many dilations. I am nearing the part of the cycle where i pull back. Where I need a break. Where I just wish she would step up to the plateand persue the answers herself. I love her with all my heart. She needs some support and advice and help from someone other then me. I really hope she finds the courage to post on her own. I will make an user name in her email for her so she can.

    Dr. Pacik

    I spoke to Chris tonight. She is doing very well at this time interval with her dilation and fully understands how she needs to progress. She continues to have abdominal spasms not related to her vaginismus or dilation schedule. She is advancing quite nicely.
    Chris indicated that she would like to have your continued support and feels sorry about the “debate” the other night.
    She is ready to take control and is doing a good job with this. Your continued support will mean the world to her.


    Dr. Pacik you mentioned that Christines spasms are unrelated to her vaginismus. I was googling menstral cramps and I found this in the article. It matches her symptoms. She has described. Cramps/spasms/contractions which ever it is. In her stomach and her legs and back have pain. Deep penitration hurts. So I will copy and paste for you. Maybe we should get her checked for this. Cause it could have caused vaginismus.

    Possible Culprit: ENDOMETRIOSISEndometriosis is a condition without a clear cause. Tissue that normally lines the uterus migrates outside it and begins growing on other organs nearby, says Dr. Brill. It affects up to 15 percent of reproductive-age women and takes an average of 10 years to diagnose after symptoms start. It’s hard to diagnose partly because so many chicks think it’s just severe menstrual cramps…so they don’t see their gyno for tests.Endometriosis typically brings on killer pain in the lower abdomen — and sometimes in the back and thighs — that often can’t be alleviated by OTC meds. This pain can pop up any time of the month. A heavy flow can also be a sign, as can painful sex. “It’ll feel like you have cramps during intercourse because your guy’s penis rubs the tissue growing outside the uterus,” says Dr. Minkin.Any of this sound familiar? Then make an appointment with your gyno. If she diagnoses you with endometriosis, birth-control pills or other hormones can slow the growth of the renegade tissue. In severe cases, surgery may be needed to reduce the amount of tissue that’s built up outside the uterus.

    Idk how to test for this I need to study it more. I wonder if just treating it with birth control, would help. Since the cramps are unrelated vaginismus and since they happen outside of her cycle. I think its worth a look. Tony

    P.S. I also think that birth control might help her with her severely sensitive breast. She also often describes penitration as” It feels like yiur hitting my organs.”

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